The Gathering Storm Thread

[Olivia 26]

I'm wandering does the oath road allow for sarcasm or is still a lie? And in that case is it simply a mistake Sanderson made or is Caddy not sworn to the three oaths

I vaguely recall reading RJ saying that the Oath Rod doesn't cover figures of speech, like "I'm going to drag you through a knothole backwards", so maybe that means it doesn't cover sarcasm either. I'm trying to think of any time in WoT proper that an AS used sarcasm but none springs to mind. Maybe you are right and it's a mistake by Sanderson, though I do think Cadsuane is still sworn - I think Verin now owns the awesomeness behind revealing she's not sworn by the oaths, so in my opinion it would be a little anticlimactic to have Cadsuane pull that same trick. Good catch in any case, Ekho.

[Marie 73]

Aes Sedai can do sarcasm. Just think of how many figures of speech can be classified as sarcasm. Rand al'Thor isn't literally a mulehead.

[AshSnow 0]

I think they can say things as long as they don't mean to lie. Or as long as they don't consciously think they are lieing. I think this was mentioned in book 5 somewhere? Something like...if an Aes Sedai TRULY believed the sky was Green...then she could tell you it was Green. It had to be to their knowledge a lie, meant for lieing. So I think sarcasm is allowed. Hope that made sense, lol wasn't my best wording.

 

To be honest I didn't mind the Mat chapters, I thought they were still funny, its just a different kind of humour from what everyones used to

 

 

The 2nd Mat chapter was alright. I believe you are right Ehko, it's just different. But I do see what Olivia means by Sanderson not being as subtle as RJ. He's actually pretty blunt.

 

Did Mat always talk this much though?

[Marie 73]

Yes, Ash is right. In NS Moiraine tells Siuan something that she believes to be true, but can't be 100% sure of. She even thinks to herself that this is a loophole. The Three Oaths aren't as strict as AS would have us to believe.

 

And Mat...Mat never went on and on and on and on for paragraphs at a time about some stupid story. It wasn't "Mat" humor. It just felt damn awkward. I would have liked it more if it was some other random dude sprouting that stuff. And I can't get over him writing backstories! The boy avoid reading for crying out loud!

[AshSnow 0]

I have finished the book. GOOD ENDING. Good to finally see Rand coming around. When Tam was talking to him, somehow the chapter felt awkward, or the conversation did, and I see why now, because it was a prepared script. It just didn't have that father-to-son feeling, but after he came storming in on Cadsuane all felt right =].

 

One question I had is, when Egwene was capture in the White Tower, during her stay she talked to some King I believe? (That the White Tower was "holding", King of Illian?) I wonder what happened to him?

 

The book overall was good, all considering it's RJ's book finished up by someone else. One thing that did bother me though , was there we're practically NO BATTLES, No fights, No Duels, no nothing. Almost no one died I think. (Except for the two forsaken, one of which was the only person I think we got to see be killed, and some Black Ajah). There were no sword fights .

And I missed the whole "Steel rang on steel". We just got a lot of "Steal rasping on leather". Even when Rodel Ituralde fought the Seanchan, we never got to see it. We just heard the battle statistic results. The only REAL fight was at the White Tower, and all that was, was Egwene roasting a few To'Raken, some Seanchan soldiers, and a hand full of Damane, and there wasn't much detail to that either, besides them being BBQ. We didn't even really go into Bryne's men's fight except for the fact that they won and routed the SeanChan. But that was also a disappointment in not having more of the fight "written" after Tuon sent all those Damane and Bloodknives into battle. I was hoping for something quite spectacular. I guess there was Mat's fight, but no one died there either.

 

I just really like the battles I suppose in WoT, so it was a disappointment to have no fights whatsoever. I miss sword fight's such as when Galad killed the Captain...General (?) of the White Cloaks.

 

That aside, it was good.

 

Chapter 22 was intense! Especially at seeing Cadsuane dazed like that from disbelief. I also was not expecting that from Verin. Though I never knew what her angle was till she revealed it. She's earned a special spot in some characters I admire.

 

It was great to see Siuan/Bryne thing finally done =]! Finally admitting it to each other more or less.

 

As Olivia pointed out, there was a lot of Father/Son theme in this book, I'm curious as well Olivia if that was RJ or Sanderson. A boy just sometimes need's a reminder from his father I suppose. I wonder if anything also will become of Rand using the TP as you pointed out. I really wish Rand would ask someone to see why he keeps getting sick when he try's to grab hold of the One Power.

 

Where was the Gay man though? I thought I might have seen it but I've forgotten =\.

 

Loved the ending. I'm happy enough =).

[Marie 73]

I don't know if I count the innkeep as gay. He was married to woman and if being gay isn't a sin in Randland, then....

 

That, and I always have an issue with the gay male stereotype. I would have liked him more if he wasn't married to a woman with a daughter.

 

I'm assuming that's who the "gay" man is; I can' think of anyone else.

 

Except Thom.

[Kaitlin 22]

It didn't occur to me that the innkeeper was gay either. I can't think of a male char showing attraction for men... hmmm, I'm better at picking up stuff between women to be honest. Randland doesn't count since every woman is a potential lesbian-but-not-really

[Olivia 26]

What the hell, people. I wasn't talking about the innkeeper. How could you miss it? Page 42:

 

Rodel Ituralde's mother, now thirty years bured in the clay hills of his Domani homeland, had been fond of a particular saying: "Things always have to get worse before they can get better." [...] She'd said it when he'd lost his first love to a lordling who wore a hat with feathers and whose soft hands and jeweled sword had proven he'd never known a real battle.

[Marie 73]

I'm afraid I'm lost on who is suppose to be gay in that quote. It is entirely possible I am blind but all I see is a man lost his first love to another man who wasn't a fighter.

[Olivia 26]

A semi-important male character loving (and implied sleeping with) another male character is the most gay we have seen in WoT so far, is my point. I wonder if that was RJ or Sanderson's idea? In any case, I liked it.

[Marie 73]

OK see, I think we are reading that quote completely differently.That was my point. I do not read any male loving. I read Rodel Ituralde loved a woman who left him for another man with soft hands. I even looked up the page directly and still feel that way.

[Olivia 26]

OK see, I think we are reading that quote completely differently.That was my point. I do not read any male loving. I read Rodel Ituralde loved a woman who left him for another man with soft hands. I even looked up the page directly and still feel that way.

Ohhhh, I see what you mean! Yeah, now that you've pointed it out to me I can see that sentence could have two completely different meanings. I guess I see the world with Gay-o-Vision. =X I thought it meant he lost his love to the man because the man broke his heart, or because he couldn't have his love in the way he wanted, a little like Lan's mashiara. Well, maybe it is wishful thinking but I still prefer to stick to my first interpretation.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Olivia

[Cerendrallion 32]

Ooh. I read it similarly to Marie, to be honest...

 

Rodel lost his love to a bit of a dandy.

[Kaitlin 22]

Ituralde's lover isn't identified as male or female. There's no way to tell whatsoever, but if you are going by the description of the dandy than that's no proof at all. Delicacy or appreciation of fashion isn't limited to gay males and women. It's perplexing to me why you would seem to even consider that, to be honest? idk.

[Marie 73]

I assume it is a woman because of WoT's lack of male/male couplings...and the fact that he has a wife, and the brief mentions of men liking men make it sound like they only like men. In the real world you might have bisexuals, but how many of those have we seen in WoT? And how many of those are not named Moiraine and Siuan or are strange fantasies of incest of Avi/Elayne?

 

I'd believe the innkeep gay before the good general if only because he is a majorly minor character and all such persons seem to follow more "traditional" ways. Unless it is having multiple, willing, wives or Myrelle being talked about like a borderline ho. Which is still "traditional" now that I think of it.