Tension! Between Lan/Moiraine

[Kaitlin 22]

old thread bump

[Iris 0]

oh my, my thread has come to town! *clears throat*

 

Firstly, I think Moiraine and Lan were definitely intimate with one another. Firstly, Moiraine is gorgeous and Lan admires her a lot. You gather that in New Spring. Moiraine, I think initially, would go for the more dashing Cormanes type, but I think she probably quickly developed love for Lan that was beyond platonic. Firstly, I'm sure she admired him because he has a lot of great qualities (else why would she bond him?) and I'm sure she felt attracted to him for that. Even Lan's carniera notes how Lan "may grow to be ugly" lol yet she wants him like no other. So I think Moiraine may have come make an exception for Lan when it comes to her preferences, but obvoiusly Thom meets the bill for dashing so she'll go for him without a second thought.

 

So I dont think they were drooling over each other from the onset, but I think there was some mutual attraction and admiration which grew...

 

Secondly Moiraine is a prude. Even if Lan slept with other women easily, I dont think Moiraine would ever go for a one night stand. Yet the woman had to get some love and warm her feet somehow. I dont think Lan did it just to provide for her in a mechanical way. I do think there was love there.

 

behold, iris speaks!:

i dont think Lan sleeping with other women negates him sleeping with Moiraine. One of Moiraine's qualities, or really assets, is that she does not allow herself to get attached to people. Other people see it as cold, but really how the heck else do you survive a way against the Shadow for 20 plus years where those who join you can die at any moment? I think Moiraine being okay with Lan sleeping with other women was really for her a deliberate defense mechanism that prevented her from getting too attached to him. I think that's why in her mind she always regarded the subject coolly. She had to do what was best for the mission, as usual.

 

"you blues, always so lost in your causes, you end up losing yourselves."

[Kaitlin 22]

I haven't seen anything in her character that would negate one night stands. She doesn't talk about sex because it's not talked about in that Cairhienin way but she still seems to have a libido. Maybe just not with Lan very much if at all.

 

To me it seems they are like cop buddies mostly. It's a bromance, only Moiraine is a woman. Since Lan has slept with women and Moiraine seems interested in men or at least Thom and other men with facial hair it's possible they got together but it doesn't seem like the usual sort of friends with benefits situation.

[Marie 73]

Moiraine doesn't talk about sex, she just thinks about it before she can stop herself.

 

Honestly, trying to understand Cairhienin is about as hard as understanding Aiel.

[Iris 0]

She does have a libido, but I really do think she's naturally too modest for one night stands or any such. I do know that Cairhienin have the propensity to suddenly lash out and do crazy things, but I don't think Moiraine is like that. I don't know why. It's just the impression I have of her. Like, wasn't that dude Cormanes the only guy she kissed before going to the tower? If she was like the typical Cairhienin, she would've got a lot more play during the Festival of Lights by the time she was 15. And Siuan herself in NS tells Moiraine "One day you'll want to do more with a man and I hope I'm there to see it" (LOL whatever that means!)

 

So I think naturally she would prefer the chastity of the bond, if I may call it that. And Lan is so grieved when she dies, even Myrelle was surprised at how bad he looked and she's dealt with Warders in that situation before. Me thinks there was some lovie

[Kaitlin 22]

But our notions of what's moral might not be hers. On one hand she's not as pervy but on the other hand she dresses slightly immorally for a Cairhienin.

 

I don't think chastity is necessarily a moral thing on it's own there. If anything, RJ writes the boys as being bumbling and not the most experienced and the girls as being the sexual aggressors (Min, Avi, Faile, Elayne, something about Nyn at a certain point which you have not read , all Greens, so on). Women are not written about as being pure as if it were a good thing, so I don't know if that would automatically tie in with being slightly less perverted of a Cairhienin.

[Iris 0]

but a one night stand?? that's like even beyond the normal aggression of the other lead females. if anything, she would do with Lan because it's easier with her busy schedule

[Marie 73]

I think for Aes Sedai one night stands are a matter of necessity.

 

There are minor (although as the series goes on it is hard to say who is minor and major at times) characters that show it isn't really all that unusal for women to be um, aggressive. Not really a term I'd use in this situation, though.

 

Moiraine flirted with Ryne well enough, and didn't mind him wanting to see her naked, just him telling other people. So Moiraine wouldn't really have an issue with a one night stand, just everyone else knowing she had had sex. But then Cairhienin don't like people knowing they have sex with their own husbands.

[Iris 0]

See, I think there's a difference between being aggressive and having one night stands. Like, I think a woman can be aggressive and extremely erotic *smiles* but that doesn't equate with being very loose/liberal about who her partners are. I always saw this as being one of the benefits of having a Warder for the Aes Sedai. They usually don't marry, but they're still women and obviously have needs, so what better than to "bond" some studly man so you and knock boots with im in addition to having him watch your back?

 

my God i think that was the most scandalous post I've ever made. i need to go try wash this blush off my face. i know how Cairhienin women feel. *splashes cool water on cheeks*

[Iris 0]

 

Moiraine flirted with Ryne well enough, and didn't mind him wanting to see her naked, just him telling other people.

 

 

But she definitely got tense when she thought he was going to do it. She didn't mind him wanting to, but I think she would mind him actually doing it.

[Marie 73]

See, I think there's a difference between being aggressive and having one night stands. Like, I think a woman can be aggressive and extremely erotic *smiles* but that doesn't equate with being very loose/liberal about who her partners are. I always saw this as being one of the benefits of having a Warder for the Aes Sedai. They usually don't marry, but they're still women and obviously have needs, so what better than to "bond" some studly man so you and knock boots with im in addition to having him watch your back?

 

my God i think that was the most scandalous post I've ever made. i need to go try wash this blush off my face. i know how Cairhienin women feel. *splashes cool water on cheeks*

But see you are placing our value system ontop of them. By your logic, Moiraine does have a liberal view of sex, otherwise she wouldn't have slept with Siuan. But in Randland such things aren't considered "liberal" just...normal. That isn't to say some don't think people should wait until marriage or have one steady partner, but in the grand scheme of things sex politics in WoT isn't like it is for us. This, again, becomes more obvious with the series.

 

Not to mention the basic fact that 1) Moiraine is a nomad 2) she is clearly not a virgin 3) her and Lan aren't lovers. Unless you are Green, chances are you and your Warder aren't getting it on. So that kind of limits the chances for a steady boyfriend and increases the chances of just a fling.

But she definitely got tense when she thought he was going to do it. She didn't mind him wanting to, but I think she would mind him actually doing it.

You are leaving out the situation, though. She didn't want him seeing her unless it was on her terms.

 

It's kind of hard to expand more since you haven't finished the series yet. But I think you'll find there's a reason those of us who have are poking holes in your argument.

[Kaitlin 22]

Again, I think you are applying certain values or morals to the story that aren't actually a part of the story.

 

Moiraine is right, Mo clearly didn't mind Ryne wanting to see her naked. She would have slept with him with the flirting that was going on. That doesn't mean she's loose or a "lightskirt", which is the one term for sluttiness I can remember in the books. Having sex with people outside of marriage or Bondage isn't loose for them.

 

But anybody knowing about it is something totally different. It's a bodily function, oh no!

 

edit: Hello Moiraine in this thread!

[Iris 0]

As far as point 3 i still think she and Lan had somethin' going on. I just dont see how she would not sleep with him. If shes looking for satisfaction, why the heck not? As far as number 2, I also agree with you that I don't think she's a virgin, but I guess what we disagree is the means to which she is not a virgin--Lan or random guy? I think she'd go for Lan, especially for a first time. Unless you consider Siuan having taken care of that. Now we disagree on what virgin means. Greens are the only ones known for marrying their Warders, but that doesn't mean the other Aes Sedai don't sleep with their Warders. It just seems so illogical to hunt down strangers when theres a guy who'd be willing to provide the same thing with you all the time.

 

i'm not trying to project my own value system onto her, but i'm just telling you what i personally gleaned from her personality and description. and i think to a certain extent though they have similar values to ours though, as they do get married and even Rand starts talking about it after he sleeps with Avi.

 

I think its hard to say what her views are of sex even in light of her sleeping with Siuan. True it wasn't traditional in the sense that it was woman to woman, but at the same time she and Siuan were super close, so I think it actually supports the idea that Moiraine might want to sleep with people she has some sort of emotional attachment to rather than strangers.

 

So many a-theory!

[Iris 0]

Dude, I dont see how you can say she would've slept with Ryne just cause they were flirting! How does one automatically connect to the other?

[Kaitlin 22]

I'm female, so not a dude. I got it from the fact that she wouldn't have minded being seen naked by him. She was interested.

 

Early on you equated having one night stands with being loose and not prudish like Moiraine. But clearly you were applying real world morals of a certain kind to RJ's world. You can be prudish for *your* culture and still have one night stands. Sex outside of marriage isn't loose for them. Having multiple partners isn't either. It is just normal.

 

 

*puts on Mod hat* If you see that you forgot something or want to add something more after you already submitted a post you can hit the edit button at the bottom of your post and just include it in.