My evil post

[Vertex 23]

Moiraine's first apperance, is when she gives a great deal of money to the three boys. It was to keep track of them and for their own good but to the boys,.. well, except Mat anyways,.. it must have made them feel in-dept to Moiraine. I believe honest people will want to pay back what they are given. So in away, it appeared to me as if Moiraine bought her way close to them. At several other occasions she also pays much more then needed for various things in order to buy goodwill. I think she is doing it to be nice but giving away money is a very poor way to be nice in... and it is an even poorer way to make friends. To some,.. such as Lan, it is even directly insulting.

 

Moiraine was probably raised to be a queen or some noble woman, at least. And it appears as if she believes that she knows better then common people. Sure she likes and cares for people but not as an equal but as a parent. However, she has done nothing very special except managing being borned in a noble family and with the gift. Non of which should make her any smarter or know better then anyone else. She doesn't appear to have any right to judge other people or manipulate them into doing anything but she does... just like most of the Aes Sedai.

 

The White tower pay alot of money in wages, money that has to be gained from taxes somehow because the Aes Sedai doesn't appear to work or earn money. And I compltely understand why some people question why the Aes Sedai deserve their luxury... it isn't at all odd that extremists like the Children of the Light questions the Aes Sedai's right to dominate the rest of the people. The Children of the light aren't doing it nicely though, but simply arguing with the Aes Sedai seems very pointless to me.

 

So in short, Moiraine and the Aes Sedai aren't very nice. I believe the Aes Sedai involuntarily created the Children of the light because of their arrogance and belief that they know better then common people.

[Sofia 0]

I think what you write is very interesting, but I must defend Moiraine!

 

To start with, Moiraine was born in a noble family, and has a lot of money. And she's not afraid to use them. To get what she wants, sure, but she also gives other people what they want. Money is always a good way to make things happen. To give the boys money was perhaps not the best way to get close to them, but it worked. She, as all the Aes Sedai, is a woman who knows how to makes things happen and how to get what she wants. And I think that's part of what's so fascinating about the Aes Sedai. They play in their own league and it's "their job" to manipulate people. They're there to bring some order in the world, and to do this they have their own methods.

I believe that The Children of Light are as far away from the Aes Sedai as you can get, a contrary, and they too have thier own methods.

 

I haven't got the feeling that Moiraine thinks that she's "better" than some people. She can't help that she was born into a noble family and that she was raised a certain way. In reality people are born into different familys and are sometimes raised to believe they're better than others. There's not much to do about it, I'm afraid.

 

I believe that Moiraine has done great things but never been fully appreciated for them. And that fact the she gives a close person such as Lan money (when was that?) could be a sign that she wants to keep a distance. No close relations and no one will get hurt. She's a very cold woman.

[Marie 73]

She never gave Lan money. In Cairhien when a lady asks for protection you are suppose to give money. She didn't know Lan was from Maliker(sp?), since until much later she thought everyone from that country was dead, as did pretty much everyone south of the Borderlands! All she gave the boys was a coin, which isn't a lot of funds, either. As far as Elayne is concerned, that's her niece! If you are sending your young family out into the world, it makes sense you'd want to make sure they had funds to survive, esp. since Elayne couldn't go to a bank herself at that time.

 

To Moiraine, money is of little import since she has always had it, and propably images she always will. So to her it seems a minor thing to hand out. She gave Siuan money because that's her friend, and she didn't want to see her friend sleeping in the woods. If Siuan had been the one with money on her, and Moiraine sleeping in the woods, she would have done the same thing.

 

As far as Whitecloaks, they are no better. They assume everyone is a Darkfriend if they are not obeyed. They don't throw money around they just threaten to kill you.

 

Aes Sedai get their money from the White Tower and the White Tower gets money from Tar Valon taxes. Which is perferctly all right, since the White Tower is the government of Tar Valon! Also, Aes Sedai like Moiraine who have estates can add to the Tower funds, and their own of course.

[jan 14]

Two things, Vertex:

 

1. I apologize for doubting that you did manage to read WoT! :-p

 

2. Now to the rest. Yes, I agree with you that Moiraine uses people, but to no less or more extent than any other Aes Sedai. As for giving those boys coins. That's kind of accepted practice - a noble woman comes to town, pays some youngsters a bit to run around for her. Nothing wrong in that.

 

As for Moiraine thinking she's better than common people, well, a lot of noble folk are brought up to think that way. They also know that they have a responsibility to "commoners", which is probably what you see in her. Perhaps we'd call her a snob if she existed in this day and age, but you have to take it in a different perspective.

 

The Aes Sedai do have a rather high-handed way of going about things, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are "not nice". They have a power or ability that sets them apart from other people, makes them different. That sort of thing makes other people look at them in various ways, ranging from awe to respect to outright hostility. It's sort of hard to "fit in" after that!

 

Yes, sometimes I do agree that she treats Lan rather shabbily, but that particular friendship goes back some two decades. I doubt we are in a position to figure out exactly how it works between them!

[Vertex 23]

I like Jan's defence of Moiraine best because she basically agrees with me!

 

I don't think it matters what age you live in,... snobbish behaviour is timeless! Or it has nothing todo with time anyways

 

I'm sorry if I was wrong about Moiraine paying Lan in NewSpring... but that was mostly an example that some people will be offended if you pay them. If a boy loves a girl and pays her that is very offensive so just because Moiraine pays boys for maybe not love that can still be very offensive to some people.

 

And what I meant about the Aes Sedai is that they rule in their world and they are not ruling a democracy because if it was, they'd have to work like everyone else. They have something of an empire going and they rule with force and sneakery.

[Marie 73]

There aren't ANY democracies in WoT.

[Vertex 23]

At the moment no,.. but they are on the verge of industrialisation and that was the time democracies broke through in our age. Anyways, just because there are non doesn't make dictatorships any nicer...

[jan 14]

I do not agree with you at all! And I also disagree about the snobbishness. The nobles/commoners divide was an accepted social structure in a particular age even in our world. Why, even today, there is a concept of a class system in most parts of the world.

 

And who said anything about RJ's world being democratic?

 

As for the rest, I have no idea what you mean!

 

(EDIT: Democracy and dictatorship are two extremes. All nations in the WoT world aren't dictatorships. Also, I don't think we can presume the same sort of development trajectoryas we did in real history!)

[Vertex 23]

I always thought of the "game of houses" as something of a fairy tail name for politics. Just like places you stay to sleep and eat has to be called a tavern or inn and not a hotel. But anyways,... there is politics and so I don't think the step to democracy is very far.

 

I do realise Moiraine might be expected to act snobishly and might even have been raised to act that way. However, she is an adult and has to take responcebility for her own life... when she goes to heaven the excuse "my parents didn't teach me to not be snobish" won't work.

 

Being able to channel sets people apart but believing that makes them better humans is racism.

[Marie 73]

I think it would be specism...and they are better! They can channel.

 

[Vertex 23]

They certainly don't act better... I mean their entire institution is so feeble a little unexperienced country girl can make a good claim at it if she's just stuborn enough. And it is not like they have any excuses, they've been there for 3000 years and should have had plenty of time to build something.

[Marie 73]

It hasn't been a stable 3000 years. There have been plenty of wars, including the 100 years war (which I imagine lasted awhile). In fact, the Tower itself hasn't been around for that full 3000 years anyway. It was established waaaaaay after the Breaking.

[Mea 0]

I don't think I like you, Vertex. My Moiraine is not a snobb!

[Cerendrallion 32]

Tut tut Niklas!

 

Where you feeling mean again?

[FortyFiveAuto 1]

Of course. Everyone takes it as a given that Aes Sedai as a society are just as much bullies in their own right as the Children.

 

Why do you think Loial, in all his 10-foot-tall might, cowers at the sight of Aes Sedai? Well, because when they say "toad", they expect you to jump, and if you don't, you get a Power paddle to the ass in short order.

 

And what happens when you're like Mat and score a sweet flow-melting ter'angreal and kindly tell pushy Aes Sedai to FOAD? You get rocks and debris hurled at you.

 

Many if not all Aes Sedai DO believe themselves superior to the average person. It's rather ironic in the present-day Randland how Aes Sedai are still even called that, "Servants of All". Everyone knows they serve their own purposes, and to hell with whomever gets the shaft. I was convinced of this when Elaida, despite not being a darkfriend, was comfortable with having people die of "accidents" to suit the Tower's ends.

 

The only channelers who appear to have some vestige of honor are the Aiel Wise Ones. How satisfying it was for me to read about all the so-called Aes Sedai whose dignity they snapped off and made snivel. Even so, Aiel have their own animosity towards nearly everyone West of the Dragonwall.

 

In the future, I think Aludra's explosives will prove useful in warfare, and then randland will begin to see a new form of guerrilla combat. What better way for non-channelers to compete with the One Power than with mines, grenades, or cannons? Explosion = too fast to react/embrace source = death.