Jump to content

What Moiraine chose (Spoilers)


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Kate

also... that Dragonmount; the penis, made Tar Valon; the vagina

Jan

What's that about dragonmount and tar valon?!

 

LOL :sheep:

 

*prepares to take over the world* MWAHAHAHA...

 

no, jan, it's moi-hahahaha :ddd:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't feel Moiraine was bad to Lan, perhaps because I also feel he was slipping in his loyalty to her, and without that you don't have such a good Warder-Aes Sedai relationship. If we view it as a business and Moiraine is the boss (which Aes Sedai are at this point) then she made an executive decision regarding his job and future "employment". Is that impersonal? Perhaps. But if we are to toss aside her positive motivations for what she did, her emotional logic (if you can call anything emotional "logical"), then we might as well bring down the entire relationship to brass tactics. Our superiors make choices for us all the time, they decide what's "best" for us without any real consent. We, usually, have the option to quit. You could argue Lan never took that option. He never asked to be released from his bond, not even after what Moiraine had said. He made no demands. He wanted to remain her Warder. He, in effect, made his choice.

Link to post
Share on other sites
He never asked to be released from his bond, not even after what Moiraine had said. He made no demands. He wanted to remain her Warder. He, in effect, made his choice.

 

Agreed.

 

On Rand's "chivalry": the problem that I find with him is that he has taken into to an extreme. He doesn't just want to protect women from bad outcomes, but he wants to protect guilty women from the outcomes they deserve, just because they're women. If there is a punishment for a crime, the person deserves the punishment regardless of gender, like Colavaere. But he spares her just because she's a woman. Likewise, Lanfear deserved to die. I really wanted to smack him for not killing her on the spot. He's preferring his "chilvary" over justice. If he's the Dragon Reborn and is a leader he really needs to get over that, but somehow I doubt he will.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Colavaere didn't deserve what she got.

 

If we're talking about justice than Lanfear needs to either be balefired in the heat of battle or if she's captured than stilled and executed for all that murder she did. Or given the harshest punishment TV can give mass murderers anyway.

 

Rand's problem is one of equality if you look at it one way. He can't kill any women because every woman is LTT's wife as he sees it in his (soul, spirit? one of those).

 

I hope a certain someone can help him with that later on so he can recover.

 

I don't hate Rand, and least not now while he has time to get better. Well, I hate him a little. :ddd:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Colavaere didn't deserve what she got.

 

I was attracted to Colavaere starting way back in TFoH when she was sending those girls to seduce Rand. And then in ACoS in her "queen scene" she was impressive too. Not a nice woman, definitely, but maybe I just have a thing for older Cairhienin noblewomen :ddd:

 

I'm curious, though, Kaitlin. You don't think she deserved to be punished for the several murders she ordered (IIRC, two lords and one of her maids)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I was attracted to Colavaere starting way back in TFoH when she was sending those girls to seduce Rand. And then in ACoS in her "queen scene" she was impressive too. Not a nice woman, definitely, but maybe I just have a thing for older Cairhienin noblewomen :ddd:

 

I'm curious, though, Kaitlin. You don't think she deserved to be punished for the several murders she ordered (IIRC, two lords and one of her maids)?

 

I'm curious as well. Wasn't what she did considered treason, and Rand had already set the punishment as death for that?

 

I also did find her impressive, in a way. She sure managed to pull off something pretty spectacular.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read all of the long posts on the previous page but I'd just like to add that I really enjoyed Lan and Rand's interaction with eachother. First when they had a student/teacher kind of relationship and even more so when Lan actually started to respect Rand as something of an equal. This more than anything else to me stands as a testament to Rand's growth in the early books.

 

Twas like:

Lan: Duty is heavier than a mountain

Rand: Totally

*brofist*

 

:ddd:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm curious, though, Kaitlin. You don't think she deserved to be punished for the several murders she ordered (IIRC, two lords and one of her maids)?

 

I'm curious as well. Wasn't what she did considered treason, and Rand had already set the punishment as death for that?

 

I also did find her impressive, in a way. She sure managed to pull off something pretty spectacular.

 

Well, the Forsaken are serial murderers but if people can talk about whether or not some of them are redeemable than Colavaere deserved a second chance by way of banishment or some such punishment for ordering some corporate killings.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Twas like:

Lan: Duty is heavier than a mountain

Rand: Totally

*brofist*

 

:ddd:

 

*thumbs up* i liked it too, Tosh.

 

Well, the Forsaken are serial murderers but if people can talk about whether or not some of them are redeemable than Colavaere deserved a second chance by way of banishment or some such punishment for ordering some corporate killings.

 

i was referring to her siezing the throne, though. i thought that was the treason that deserved death. (?)

 

i dont know who thinks the Forsaken are redeemable other than Rand thinking of Lanfear, which is why I think his chivalry became ridiculous. The only exception I can see is with Nyna how she used Moghedien and how Rand used Asmo. In those cases I think there was a greater good for the cause that came from not killing them.

 

When it came to Colavaere though what annoyed me was that he was such a stickler about enforcing his punishments and he hung that Aiel guy even though he liked him, but with Colavaere he wanted her to wiggle out of it just because she was a woman.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I find this whole notion of chivalry deeply ironic.

 

If you trace chivalry back to its medieval roots, its not about protecting women. Chivalry is about maintaining the status of a Knight, and protecting women is a key part of this, as by protecting a woman you showed your prowess as a warrior. You couldn't turn down a woman without denting your status. Knighthood and chivalry are more linked to homosocial brotherhood than anything else - it is the relationship between the men that is supposed to be of interest to us, not their relationship to women. Literary canon has always kind of geared us towards this notion - just look at medieval texts like 'The Knight's Tale' in 'The Canterbury Tales' or the story Balin the knight with 2 swords in Malory.

 

So...I think what I'm trying to say is the perhaps what Jordan is trying to do with the whole chivalric notion is maintain Rand's status as the Dragon Reborn, to make him noble, tying in with someone else's idea...I can't remember who said something like this and am too lazy to look. :ddd:

 

I also don't agree about it being okay to throw Lan around like that. That Moiraine was only trying to save his life and keep him from avenging her death is not a good enough reason in my book. If you make a choice, you also choose to be responsible for its consequences. If Lan was stupid enough get himself killed because he couldn't handle's Mo's "death", serves him right! That said, the choice Moiraine made about jumping into the ter'angreal with Lanfear was a choice made for herself, which, in my book again, makes it hers to make, so it's fine.

 

This intrigues me. Apologies if I sound confrontational, but text doesn't do tone! What justification, if any, would make the way Moiraine behaved towards Lan acceptable then in your book? I think its reason enough, to be honest. :sheep:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, the Forsaken are serial murderers but if people can talk about whether or not some of them are redeemable than Colavaere deserved a second chance by way of banishment or some such punishment for ordering some corporate killings.

 

Now I'm confused. :sheep: I thought you said Colaevere didn't deserve what she got, i.e. banishment to a farm... but now you are saying she did deserve the banishment? :ddd: (It's not that I disagree entirely with either stance, I'm just confused by what you mean, Kaitlin.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Welcome!

    Come join your fellow fanatics! :lol:

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.