What Moiraine chose (Spoilers)

[Kaitlin 22]

Yes, what she got is what happened to her. I wasn't talking about what she didn't end up getting, which was banishment. She didn't deserve to die.

 

Nynaeve wondered about what to do with Moggy. Rand's been unsure about Lanfear and not just because she's a woman. It's that, plus the fact that she has stood and had friendly conversations with him. He's kept Asmo as his teacher, and Moiraine saw why he needed to have him around. They've got Semi now and didn't immediately kill her. If the characters can be somewhat accepting of the most evil of evil murderers than it's not wrong to cut the minor villains some slack.

 

I think it's just that we all tend to not know what to do with uber-evil people that do the worst of crimes. Some criminals are so horrible that the laws don't seem adequate enough. Still, it's not hypocritical to find the Forsaken somewhat redeemable as readers of the books. It just makes us compassionate or logical. It's the same with the little bad guys.

[Olivia 26]

Edit: Okay, after reading Kaitlin's 1-min-before-mine post, I am cleared up. I thought you meant "what she got" as in "what someone gave her", and no one gave her suicide. Little semantics mix-up on my part.

[Kaitlin 22]

Edit: Okay, after reading Kaitlin's 1-min-before-mine post, I am cleared up. I thought you meant "what she got" as in "what someone gave her", and no one gave her suicide. Little semantics mix-up on my part.

 

I didn't explain it before either!

[Iris 0]

can you ever not deserve something you do to yourself?

 

I think the only reason the Forsaken could be kept alive rightfully is to use them to some benefit, like their knowledge or their Power. I don't think it would be compassionate to keep them alive. I think it would be majorly unjust to let someone like that still threaten the world.

 

I think Colavaere did deserve to die (not by killing herself but by hanging) if that was the punishment Rand had already set for the crime of treason. If not then she didn't. My thing is that if he made a law, he shouldn't just exempt her from it because she's a woman. I think exemption can only occur in ignorance or when someone was sincerely trying to do the right thing. But I mean at the end of the day she killed herself, so I guess she wanted to die even though she got cut some slack.

[Kaitlin 22]

can you ever not deserve something you do to yourself?

 

Absolutely. It happens all the time. That's why they call them suicide victims, not perpetrators.

 

I don't believe in something being right just because it is a law. There are lots of bad laws. Because someone is sentenced to death in a lawful court that does by any means make it just or correct. The person is not automatically deserving of death. To assume that a law is automatically correct is to assume that lawmakers are by their nature infallible. Rand's the hero and yet he's not perfect.

 

I wasn't really debating the Forsaken thing. I was just saying what was going on with the characters in the books and with some readers.

[Iris 0]

There can be some argument about whether or not Rand's law about death for treason was good or bad, but what I find problematic was that it wasn't like he was making an exception for Colavaere bc he thought the law was lame but because she was a woman. It's like he thinks that women are less deserving of the death penalty simply because they're women. I bet if a man and woman both committed murder he would hang the guy but then send the woman to hoe vegetables. This is what I find problematic with him. I find that his chivalry has in multiple cases now led him to be unjust/have poor judgment.

[Kaitlin 22]

We can argue about whether his law about treason was good or bad but that is not my point. My point is that if a person is given the death penalty and they kill themselves that doesn't mean they deserved their death because by law they were to die, as you suggested. And if you can follow that I'll give you a cookie! I'm not sure I can!

 

These threads of discussion always get ground to a halt by arguments. It makes me sad but I stubbornly post anyway. *argumentative*

 

Moiraine sure loves to make choices! Why'd she choose those neon blue stirrup pants on the cover of NS, that's what I'd like to know.

[Iris 0]

we're not arguing Katie! *hugs*

 

We can argue about whether his law about treason was good or bad but that is not my point. My point is that if a person is given the death penalty and they kill themselves that doesn't mean they deserved their death because by law they were to die, as you suggested. And if you can follow that I'll give you a cookie! I'm not sure I can!

 

you misunderstand me! that's so not what i meant! i dont think Colaevere deserved to kill herself! (on a personal level i am deeply opposed to suicide) i was making a joke when I said "Can a person not deserve something they do to themselves?" or whatever it was I said because it just seems ironic that they dont deserve it yet they did it to themselves bc normally when you think of someone getting something they dont deserve, is something another person inflicted on them.

 

my only point is that i think Rand should apply the law equally between men and women. i was sad for her when she hung/choked herself to death. however it does speak loudly of her character which is basically her obsession with her status.

 

where's my cookie, cookie?

 

edit: those pants always troubled me! they were so NOT divided riding skirts. and why do people always draw her with her hair up when so many times its mentioned that she always wears it down (so much hotter). psh.

[jan 14]

(*tries to get head around the term "suicide perpetrator" and fails*)

[Tosh 8]

Perpetrators of suicide... I wonder if thats a band yet.

[Kaitlin 22]

 

you misunderstand me! that's so not what i meant! i dont think Colaevere deserved to kill herself! (on a personal level i am deeply opposed to suicide) i was making a joke when I said "Can a person not deserve something they do to themselves?" or whatever it was I said because it just seems ironic that they dont deserve it yet they did it to themselves bc normally when you think of someone getting something they dont deserve, is something another person inflicted on them.

 

my only point is that i think Rand should apply the law equally between men and women. i was sad for her when she hung/choked herself to death. however it does speak loudly of her character which is basically her obsession with her status.

 

where's my cookie, cookie?

 

edit: those pants always troubled me! they were so NOT divided riding skirts. and why do people always draw her with her hair up when so many times its mentioned that she always wears it down (so much hotter). psh.

 

 

I got what you meant. And you're still saying the same thing. I just disagree! It seems like you misunderstand me but here is a cookie because I stole too many and have extra.

 

And I don't know about you but I argued. I'm heartbroken you didn't realize!

 

Tosh, if it's not it should be.

[Asmodean82 0]

Heavy. More later, too hot and tired.

[Iris 0]

katie, please tell me what you think i'm staying, because even i don't know what you think im saying! (or perhaps i just don't know what i'm saying at all!)

 

i think Colavaere deserved whatever penalty was in the law bc that's fair, but if Rand banished her to a farm than ultimately he's the leader so that's where she should've been--not hanging from a scarf by her neck. i think that's what i'm saying (????)

 

you argued and you're heartbroken? no! here, take this from me.

 

and thank you for the cookie.

[Kaitlin 22]

katie, please tell me what you think i'm staying,

 

You've explained it a few times.

[Iris 0]

lol. okay, then apparently i'm not a good explainer because i can't explain it in a way that is comprehensible to myself. or something.