[Split] Moiraine/Siuan Redux

[jan 14]

I don't know. I just get that bi feeling. You don't think either of them slept with another woman in all those years?

No, I don't think they did either!

[Ekho 52]

I don't imagine either of them sleeping with anyone all those years

[Marie 73]

That I think is streching it. I don't think they've had actual relationships, but since they clearly do not believe in celibacy, avoiding sex for 20+ years would drive them bonkers. If they were ok with not having sex, they never would have been pillow friends in the first place.

[Mea 0]

Exactly. And in New spring Moiraine seemed really... *looks for a better word but can't find one*... horny.

[Ekho 52]

Very true...I never said i believed they were celibate, I just couldn't imagine them with anyone, I always thought having a warder might...make sex slightly awkward, even if they could mask the bond

[Kaitlin 22]

It seems like Warders and AS would develop ways to give each other space even more than just masking the bond.

 

I still think Moiraine and Siuan would have had more female lovers than just each other in those twenty years. Why go through all the trouble of pretending to be someone you're not and being all tricky with men who wouldn't want you if they knew you were Aes Sedai? There's too much risk that it could backfire later. Besides, they don't seem the types to want to hide major facets of themselves to lovers. Randland people don't think the same way we do about sexuality.

 

But I don't think that they only had female lovers, or that they were even the majority of lovers in those years.

[Marie 73]

I agree they don't think the same way, but Moiraine seems really horny...for men. If she had shown any signs of being as distracted by attractive females as she did males in NS, I would agree with you, but as it stands it really does seem they were lovers because they were stuck in a Tower, not because they are intrested in females sexually in normal life.

[Kaitlin 22]

We are going by her thoughts right after leaving the Tower. She had never been with a man, and wanted one. She was currently with Siuan.

 

She does show a couple of actions that could be attraction for other women in the actual series. She was even nicer to Algemer's (how the heck do you spell it??) sister than she strictly had to be. She's all sutble like that.

 

Also, Siuan jokes with Min at one point and says she doesn't have time to take a lover. You can't rule out women because it doesn't specifically rule them out by that comment. Siuan is really just attracted to Gareth afterwards. Because she's attracted to one man at that point in her life doesn't mean she's never felt that way about other women.

[Marie 73]

That one lord's sister (not even trying to spell those names!) I had forgotten her. However, I would say she's about as lesbian as I am (or less gay than you are straight! ). So, while she might like one or two woman, for all intents and purposes she is heterosexual.

[Kaitlin 22]

It's hard to apply our own standards to them. We are not even sure of things ourselves, in society! *giggles* People don't know whether to label me Bi or Lesbian! Labels are stinky.

 

Maybe I should have left out the bi thing when I was talking about things. I believe that Moiraine does have an attraction for women, and Siuan does too. They may feel attracted to a fewer number of women than men. I think that we can't rule out women when thinking about their past lovers, and personally feel that they did have other female lovers other than each other.

[Marie 73]

But in all honesty, ignoring their pillow friendship, what strikes you about them as sexually ambiguous? *curious*

[Kaitlin 22]

I actually don't know. It's a way they are with other women.

[Marie 73]

I could maybe see that with Moiraine, but Siuan strikes me as so....Siuan.

[Olivia 26]

OT: Lord's name is Agelmar and his sister is Amalisa.

 

I don't think Moiraine has been with other women in the past 20 years, but I think there is some evidence (maybe a little flimsy) that she has at least thought about them.

 

For instance, she often describes women in her mind as "lovely" or notices their bosom, not to mention her dealings with Egwene:

 

We know Egwene was "forced" into learning saidar faster than she should have by Moiraine, and this begs the question of why? Egwene hadn't already touched the Power, so she was in no danger of learning to control it before it killed her, so why rush to start her training before they went to Tar Valon? Maybe Moiraine was willing to indulge an inquistive, gorgeous young woman just so please her and to see her dependent and in awe of Moiraine.

 

I can predict the counter-evidnce people will come up with though:

1. All of the women in the WoT think of other women as "lovely" and maybe the bosom thing was just checking out the competition.

 

2. Maybe she forced Egwene so that there would be another channeler about in the case of another Trolloc attack, that Moiraine could at least link with to increase her strength. Or maybe she was trying to demonstrate to Nynaeve that learning the Power wasn't harmful or evil.

 

It's not a definite subject, we can't really say "Moiraine is bi" or "Siuan was just a one-time thing while they were in the Tower", I think RJ just puts lots of subtle evidence in for all the arguments about her sexuality just to make people crazy.

[Kaitlin 22]

I don't believe that Egwene was forced into learning to channel by Moiraine. Forcing a woman is more what the Sul'dam do. Moiraine, from the evidence of Egwene's first controlled brushings with the Power, was guiding Egwene. It's pretty obvious that she did it to assist the girl and regarded it as a responsibility. Egwene had a powerful potential and Moiraine discovered her. If nothing else Moiraine did not wish to let her play around with the Power on her own in case something catastrophic happened. Eggy could have burnt herself out or killed someone. In the second book the Aes Sedai that take Nyn and Eggy back to the Tower do pretty much the same thing. They're just giving the girls a head start so that they learn to do things safely.