Rape or no?

[Marie 73]

This is often a debate on a certain forum I refuse to go to anymore. Bascially, there are those who see what Alanna did to Rand (forcing of Warder bond) and what Tylin did with Mat, as a form of male rape. What's your opinion?

 

I won't go in depth about my opinions until others have had a chance to share their thoughts, but I will say I disagree.

[Kaitlin 22]

What Alanna did to Rand was technically a form of mental rape, because she was doing something very intimate and invading to him without his consent. I also strongly suspect that Verin did something to Alanna that is also akin to mental rape to force Alanna to bond Rand.

 

What Logaine (gah, I can't be bothered to make sure that's how to spell it) did to the two Aes Sedai he is linked with was also a form of mental rape. But, on top of that he is also compelling them to act in certain ways using that link. So, technically it's like raping them every day.

 

That's all I really want to say about this subject on here. I hope everybody can understand that I don't really want to debate it anymore if I don't answer you back, though I may reply to maybe a couple of things people say if I haven't thought of things or so forth. I'm not trying to be rude about it.

[Marie 73]

Mental rape, yes, that's more akin to what I think of it as. That bonding of Aes Sedai...mmm...yeah, no comment. Everytime I read those sections my blood boils. Is that how you spell boils? It looks funny to me.

[Ishmael Moridin 0]

Yep, that's what I think it is too. As far as Rand is concerned, having somebody inside your head, all your emotions transparent to them, and sometimes not being able to hide the most intimate thoughts is very bad, probably worse than its physical counterpart.

 

As for what logain did to the two Aes Sedai, it is far more humiliating. Atleast in case of rand, he cannot feel alanna much unless he is close to her. But the red and the brown live with logain.

 

But I think that is less intrusive on the mind than the warder bond. I recall the red feeling disgusted at what the brown was doing with Logain. I don't think logain got to know about it. (I have not read that part in quite a while. So I am not too sure)

 

As for mat ..... he may have complained on a regular basis and may have disagreed with some of the methods used ..... But I think the bugger enjoyed most of it

[jan 14]

I agree with Kate - it is a form of mental rape and is pretty disgusting to think about.

 

I have been a bit unsure in the later books what point Jordan is trying to make with the Ashaman forcing themselves on the Aes Sedai they have 'captured'... I am not sure I like it - in fact, I dislike it enough to start getting put off.

[Marie 73]

I agree with Ajit about Mat - he liked it. If RJ wanted that to be a sort of male rape, he did a bad job of it. What Mat was complaining about was how he wasn't the one doing the chasing and how, basically, Tylin was acting like he does.

[Cerendrallion 32]

I really dislike the Asha'men forcing themselves on the Aes Sedai...and what Alanna did to Rand is just as bad. Personally, I think bonding a personal against their will is absolutely appalling...as bad as physical rape, as the bondee is constantly privy to your thoughts.

[Ekho 52]

I agree with everyone, what the ashaman did to the aes sedai is wrong I disagree with what Alanna did to Rand although I wonder why she did it, she must have had a reason.

I don't think mat was raped by tylin, it may have annoyed him at times, but he had fun;)

[Mea 0]

Well, I don't know what it's like to be raped but I know it's realy, realy bad and I don't think this is as bad as that. Rand seemed mostly angry but Toveine was alot more upset. I think it's like rape but not as bad.

 

What realy makes me angry is that the people on Wotmainia seemes to think that what Alanna did to Rand was worse than what the asha'man did. Everyone hates Alanna for bonding Rand but most people like Logain.

[Olivia 26]

What realy makes me angry is that the people on Wotmainia seemes to think that what Alanna did to Rand was worse than what the asha'man did. Everyone hates Alanna for bonding Rand but most people like Logain.

 

Because (incoming feminism/common sense) they are men and the idea of a man forcing himself on a woman and controlling her is common and even, dare I say, acceptable to them. But the reverse, a woman controlling a man, is abomination to them, and takes away their sense of security and power that they can only find in the fact of their masculinity.

 

Back on topic, the whole subject is very personal and makes me very angry. Warder/Aes Sedai bonding without consent is immeasurably worse than rape. Rape usually only happens once and doesn't last long. Bonding lasts years, decades even. Every single moment of every day, you are enslaved to that person, unable even to resist an order to kill, to allow yourself to be raped, or countless other things. It is the epitome of slavery, and in my opinion, I don't understand how people can even have questions about the morality of this subject.

 

As for Mat and Tylin, I agree with what has already been stated by others: that Mat was only upset because he hadn't initiated it and wasn't in control (which goes back to what I was saying in my firt paragraph).

 

I find many things about WoT sexist towards women, because RJ is just what we would consider "old-fashioned", and also sexism towards men by the women, because he tried to make the society equal. I have never yet heard of a society where the genders are truly equal and do not resort to manipulating and controlling each other.

[Marie 73]

What Verin did to her follow Aes Sedai...that sits very wrong with me. Even if I can see why she would do it, doesn't make it right.

[Iridal 0]

I must agree with what the majority of people are saying here. What Alanna did to Rand was completely wrong. Even other Aes Sedai are disgusted by it.

As for Logain and the other Asha'man with their bonded Aes Sedai, you have to remember, those Aes Sedai were sent to gentle them. They could have just killed the Aes Sedai, but they didn't. It is sort of a form of self-defense. I'm not saying it's not still vile, but consider the alternatives. At least bonding can be reversed...death can't.

And as for Tylin and Mat...he enjoyed it, plain and simple. No matter how much he complained.

[Kaitlin 22]

Those Aes Sedai could have been shielded and held. Other things could have happened rather than being forcefully bonded. If you believe that's what happened to Rand, then surely what Logain did was the same thing.

[Iridal 0]

Indeed they could have been shielded and held, but considering the resourses that would have taken and that the Asha'man are nothing if not efficient, is it really something they would feasibly do? No.

Yes, it is just the same thing as what Alanna did to Rand. It's worse if anything. I wasn't saying what they did was right, I'm only saying it could have been worse...though I'm sure some of those Aes Sedai certainly wish they were dead.

[Olivia 26]

Some, including I'm sure the dignified and proud Aes Sedai, would rather die than be so utterly humiliated and defeated and chained.