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Olivia

Dragonsworn
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Posts posted by Olivia

  1. That implies religion predated people inventing morals and rules for the betterment of society. In other words, religion is the reason we don't kill or steal, etc. My point was, religion was made to give a reason for why those rules and morals existed in the first place.

     

    You're right, which is why I said I suck at getting my meanings across. I think I've been saying things backwards that what I intended, doing kind of a pre-comparison or something.

    My underlying and original point is similar to what Marie just said, so all these arguments have been in vain. :)

     

    Morals, Ethics, and stuff were made to help and control society for our own good. Religion was made to solidify those morals, but also to deal with explaining the world and afterlife, etc. so that people would be satisfied and live out their lives as effective members of society. And I also agree with what Kaitlin said about people using religion's control over humanity to get what they want.

     

    I did not mean to imply that religion came before morals or early society; because it is indeed the other way around. I was making a correlation but managed to botch it as usual, sort of like explaining the effect before explaining the cause. Sorry for my communication skills, and as always, much <3 for everyone who took the time to read my thoughts :P;)

  2. I agree with you. It's fine to speak your mother tongue with your family or friends, or even in some parts fo your job, but you need to learn English to get by in this country and it's legal systems and other formal institutions (such as education). Also like Marie mentioned, other immigrants have to learn English too. Even ones that have been in this country for a few generations still had to learn English along with their native language.

  3. *shrug* Same reason anyone doesn't believe in a religion, I imagine.

     

    A lot of it was stupid and archaic, and I disagreed with a lot of the things they taught and said. But most of all, I just never was moved by it, and I never believed. And faith is the most important part of every religion; if you don't have faith, you aren't a part of that religion.

     

    I haven't been a Catholic for years though, since I was 13 or so, I very rarely even think of it anymore. I don't have an ascribed religon, but I consider myself a very spiritual person. ;P

     

    Hope that clears some of the confusion up, Ajit.

     

    On Thread Topic: I confess I really like reading that part in NS where Siuan kisses Moiraine, even though it's just one lame line.

  4. The people who said they ran away I think meant that they converted to another faith or to aetheism.

     

    I meant that I never did believe in Catholicism, so technicially I've never converted.

     

    Doesn't matter either way what faith anyone used to be though. What matters is how they define themselves now. ;P

  5. That's what I'm saying!!!!!!

     

    People made religion to control their societies for the better, and morals were made to stop what was considered harmful to society.

     

    I'm sorry I suck so badly at getting my meanings across....

  6. Paris Hilton - Stars are crazy ?

    I did'nt even know she sang ...

     

    "We used to have talented actors and singers trying to become celebrities, now we have celebrities trying to be actors and singers."

     

    I can't remember where I read that, but it's so true!

     

    The thing that bothers me about paris hilton is that she doesn't even DO anything that made her famous - she didn't sing or act or do political stuff or something. She's just an anorexic slutty rich girl whose parents own hotels. Do yourself a favor, Ajit, don't waste time listening to her. ;P

     

    On topic: Listening to A Perfect Circle - Judith

  7. Gay couples already have some legal process that gives them some sort of the same marriage rights as straight couples (as in tax and insurance and kin's rights, etc.

     

    But it's not the same as marriage, either legally and in spirit, so they want to have marriages exactly the same way a straight couple can.

     

    But, some people don't want homosexuals to be married in that sense, for a few reasons: they are of a religion that considers homosexuality to be a sin, they think that marriage should stay between a man and a woman for some reason or another, or they are just against gays.

     

    (I don't have all the info for either side of the argument, so anyone that has more pls share it.)

     

    I'm trying to make this make some sense, Jan. Is it working? ;P

  8. Ah, I see. ;P I misinterpreted, cause I'm not familiar with Arizona's Propositions and such being voted on today.

     

    And about English being the offical language of Arizona.....what else would it be? O_0 I thought English was the official language of the nation

  9. Yes, they are not aliens, but small faeries pretending to be people. They are called, "Small Per'verts Who St'are" faeries and usually live cuddled up on many layers of silk. So, Olivia was partly right in mentioning silk, as was Marie in suggesting they are not human.

     

    You make me laugh, oh so hard. ;P:)

  10. Ahhhhnold Shwarzenegger (sp?) RE-ELECTED!

     

    I LOVE CALIFORNIA! ;P:):P

     

    @ Marie: You're against gay marriage? (Not trying to start a heated debate, just curious/starting conversation if you're interested.)

  11. I think religion was to help explain the world around them, and later on to explain why certain people could do certain things but others couldn't. Which is a form of control. I don't think it's the same control you're speaking of, because if that was the case, government wouldn't have been invented.

     

    I understand your point and Ekho's point, but I think it agrees with what I said. If people weren't told what was happening around them, like why the sun rises and why it rains, etc., then they would waste time trying to find out what was really happening, something that early society wasn't ready to have its members do. The people that just lazed around and considered philosophy or science all day were a very small percentage of the population, most of which were already rich or had some other means of supporting themselves so that they didn't have to do "work".

     

    But what counts as murder depends on the culture/religion. It's also instinct for men to be the only sperm donor, so you could say it's in their blood to kill competion. People have kids because they like sex. If people didn't like sex, most of us wouldn't be here.

     

    Those points go again with basic survival instincts - which includes the instinct to mate and yes, sex is a good feeling. Perhaps I should have originally said that people wouldn't spend decades trying to make sure their children were good, self-supportive people and instill morals into them.

     

    I don't think any faith says you can kill because people scare you. They say you can kill someone of a different faith/society because they are somehow evil. Big difference.

     

    Not a big difference, really. Evil is just a point of view. To a defending country, invaders seem evil and imperialistic, while the invaders see themselves as liberators or as people who are just trying to look out for their own country's needs. "Evil" is something destructive to a person or a group of people, even though it's usually beneficial to some other being.

     

    And yet a number of faiths condone the stealing of human liberty.

     

    I meant stealing of things like food or land or other resources, that would damage survival chances. And yes, many cultures and religions (including the popular Christianity) endorse such things as taking slaves, but only from other cultures. If a place takes slaves from their own culture, the enslaved are usually war prisoners or have failed to meet the culture's norms in some way.

     

    People do that anyway.

     

    (Regarding they give up on hope becuase they know they will die soon.) Yes, people do it. But it's not common for a person to going completely ape shit and disregard all society's rules or just give up on mainstream life. And for the people that do do that, it's almost always because of some psychological problems or difficulties that set them apart from average individuals.

     

    Religion hasn't stopped people from doing those things. You know what stops them? Government. Fear of being in jail or killed yourself keeps people in check (usually).

     

    And where does a government get its laws that it jails us for breaking? From the social morals and acceptable behavior standards, which stem from culture's need to preserve itself. Example, the government arrests and imprisons murders becuase murderers are evil. They are evil becuase killing is wrong, and killing is wrong for reasons already mentioned. I see government as the enforcers of religion (even though often the two aren't technically affiliated), or rather, of religion's teachings. Government makes sure we follow the rules, but they don't explain nature or deal with afterlife and such.

     

    A lack of an afterlife actually spurs some people to make the most of this one.

     

    Very true. But not everyone would be satisfied with the thought that this life is all we have. And "making the most of this life" could lead to selfish actions that are harmful to the group safety and health.

     

    Having said all that, I do believe in a higher power. I do not, however, believe in organized religion simply because they seem to be moving away from actual spirituality.

     

    I also believe in a higher power, but I do not have an ascribed religion. I'm spiritual; I try to think of deeper meanings of existence, like many people have over the millenia, but I don't exactly think we can be taught what happens after death or how the universe began and such. I think we should come to our own decisions, and not everyone should believe in a religion just becuase others before you have. (Not that it's exactly wrong to do so.)

     

    I also have much love for Olivia and playing devil's adovate ;P

     

    <3 Much love. :P:);P

  12. I'd like to apologize for that whole unecessary rant, and for posting it in an inappropriate thread, I was just very bored and very tired and wanting a distraction. Don't pay it any heed if you aren't interested. O_0;

  13. They probably look more alike than most families: any noble class of any country has limited options for breeding, unless they want to draw from the peasant stock - which is considered highly distasteful, unless it's only once in a while.

     

    But the Damodreds have been ruling Cairhien for centuries, I think 500 years they maintained power becuase of their control over the Silk Path. (I may be wrong *gasp* on the number of centuries, I can remember the passage that lists it, but not where to find it to check myself. I will do that later.)

     

    So Damodreds have been kings and queens and more liekly to form arranged/political marriages with noble families, and after centuries, this becomes a problem, because all your suitors are related to you in some way. Therefore, cousins are more likely to look alike when they come from a small-branched family tree.

  14. I'm very opinionated on religion, though I don't think this is the right thread to discuss it. Maybe a moderator could split the thread? Or just spank me for straying off-topic. :P

    (This may be confusing, but I'm trying hard to explain what I mean, and I'm not trying to convert anyone or slam faiths, just express myself.)

     

    Anyways, I think religion is a way of controlling society for our own good. Thousands of years ago (5,000 I think), when civilization first started, people needed some set of rules to ensure that their society would continue to exist and that we wouldn't fall back into small groups of animals that lived day by day gathering food and hunting with rocks. So, think of early society in primitive terms, just people with complex survival instincts that have decided to settle in one area.

     

    For instance, take murder. Murder is considered wrong in every single culture and religion ever to exist. Why? Because killing people takes memebers away from a society, which makes the group have trouble functioning if it loses too many members. So, not killing a fellow human is a group survival instinct.

    But what about killing that is accepted. Again, that is a complex version of basic survival instinct. We are allowed to kill someone who is harming us, directly or indirectly. (Indirectly being killing someone of a different nationality or faith, because you fear that they will affect your culture for the worse or take away what you enjoy). Same with the norms of a group of people being against stealing - it takes away your chances of living long and being happy.

     

    Another point, which Tosh mentioned, is hope. All religions have provided their people with a reason to exist. We NEED to know that there are good things after death, that there is an afterlife with all those that died before us, or that we will be reborn and live again.

     

    Why? Because if we didn't have a certainty of an afterlife or a rebirth, we would panic. Fall down and scream, because no matter what we do, we will die and never come back out of that nothingness of death that lies only a few decades ahead.

     

    People would think "well if my existence will end in 50 years, what's the point of having children and making my society go on? Or working? Or doing anything I don't want? Why don't I just go out, live for the moment, steal what I want, kill who I want, and do whatever meets my whims." And you CANNOT have a society that can function with that state of mind in everyone. There would be no mass food production for everyone (who would waste their short lives farming?) No way to get food to people (who would drive a cart or a car when they could be doing something mroe interesting?) Who would police the society, who would be responsible for medicinal purposes or health, or making clothing and buildings and educating people?

     

    So, since for a long long time, people have not been able to understand sociology, we have needed some word or assurance that supposedly is from "someone greater than humanity", something that knows more than we do and will protect us if we follow its rules; very much like children and parent. Until the day we find out for sure what really happens after death, what for sure lies beyond, we will need our "parent". When we understand why we need religion and when humanity is responsible enough and wise enough to live without our "parent", we will no longer need blind faith.

     

    Sorry for the length, I'm just really distracted. *hides*

  15. Far Dareis Mai - Maidens of the Spear

     

    Daes Dae'mar - The Great Game/Game of Houses

     

    *tucks WoT encyclopedia back into recesses of mind*

     

    I happen to agree with those that think Moiraine's sisters are alive, but personally I think they are unimportant.

     

    I think her sisters aren't even of any huge relevance, they were just created to give Moiraine more of a backround, and don't have much merit for themselves. We don't even meet them, and aside from that one conversation with Jarna Sedai, they are never mentioned in NS. RJ notes (as Marie already mentioned) that neither had suitable personalities for Queen and no one would support them - which puts them neatly out of the future plot of the War of Sucession in Cairhien.

     

    Therefore they have no need to appear in the mainstream WoT plot....but perhaps in the other prequel RJ has said he will write (the one covering Moiraine/Lan's exploits on their way to the Two Rivers) one or more of Moiraine's kin will show themselves.

  16. Anyway now I'm going to go edit that post.

     

    Don't do that. ;)

     

    Not only will the conversation not make sense to others who have missed the last 2 days or so, it's better to see a mistake and then move on in a better tone, determined to change, than to just try and fix what went wrong.

     

    (I also have a tendency to talk out of the wrong hole, Tosh. In fact, you'll find that most of us here do! :P )

  17. Lots of people write happy poems too. They write about being in love, which is arguably the happiest feeling of all, or being in lust.

     

    Arguably it can be the worst feeling ever, and can drive people to their most wicked sides and darkest acts.

     

    I do agree with you though, Mistress Kaitlin, not all poems are just darkness and wallowing. Although at times, some that are happy and joyous just seem like frivolous indulgence instead of deep, meaningful feelings.

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