The White Tower: After Tarmon Gaidon

[Cerendrallion 32]

I love the White Tower. I honestly do. Its my favourite bit of WoT and what I find highly irksome is when all the know-it-alls over at Wotmania get on their high horse about the Aes Sedai, as, in my opinion, they're brilliant

 

Now...point of this post...what do we all think is going to happen with the White Tower after Tarmon Gaidon? Will there be a White Tower? Or will there be a combination of Ashaman and Aes Sedai and a whole separate tower be created - the stripey zebra-like tower? Or will there even be channelling?

 

What will happen with these bonded Ashamen warders? Will that become the norm - no more non-channeller warders, only Ashamen/Aes Sedai pairings?

 

Will Egwene be Amyrlin after Tarmon Gaidon? Logain as M'Hael? Or what the blazes is going to happen?

 

Off you go. Discuss.

[Ekho 52]

I think there will be a white and black tower, there will definetly be aes sedai and ashaman after Tarmon Gaidon, its mentioned in one of nicola's foretellings.

I think Egwene will be amyrlin and logain M'Hael

[Sivart Reborn 7]

I think the structure will change quite a bit, but in a direction no one expects. Like after the Breaking, there will be a sudden change in a lot of politics, landscape(guess), and boundries.

[Kaitlin 22]

I sort of agree with both Ekho and Siv.

 

Elaida was building a tribute place for herself that was gonna be slightly bigger than the WT. Maybe that's where the Ashamen will go? It would be better if things were made evenly though!

 

I just hope that the forced bondings stop. Maybe the Ashamen and Aes Sedai will find a way to mutually bond each other so that no one partner is weaker, or maybe it will be sort of like the Sea Folk marriage concept - with the one who tends to take the lead being the bondee so that things are a little more balanced.

 

The WT is gonna have a lot of work to do helping the nations rebuild, plus rebuilding and redefining their own culture and laws. Eggy has a lot of good ideas. It'd be good if she stayed Mother for a while. It doesn't seem like Logain would be able to influence her or take dominance of the WT/Ashamen group. She's a little irritating, but strong.

 

*also hates the way certain people on wotmania view the Aes Sedai and the WT* It's sort of the same at Dragonmount but not as bad. Why do you guys think so many people hate the AS? (Actually maybe that should be another thread )

 

*doesn't like the way RJ built them up, and than right away made them seem silly*

[Ekho 52]

I don't know why so many hate aes sedai I love them

[Cerendrallion 32]

Oh, thats a good idea, make another thread...

 

*too tired right now...maybe Jan will be nice enough to split this thread*

 

I love the Aes Sedai. A lot of fantasy is macho and predominantly male-dominated. Its refreshing to see some powerful females and what really pissed me off was when the male channellers were stronger in the power. I mean, come on. If Ashamen are stronger in the physical sense, then Aes Sedai should be stronger in the power to level things out.

 

Ooh, I just donned my feminist cap there. Didn't mean to offend any of the gentlemen around here, of course.

[Kaitlin 22]

-off-topic-*adjusts her feminist cap* It's ok to want gender equality, LauraBean. I also hope the guys around here don't think that just because a person wants that doesn't mean we don't like and respect you. You are great! *hair fluffing!*

 

The inclusion of strong female characters and other diversity was what kept me reading the series after tGH.

 

The White Tower is a large organization with far reaching aims and goals, but it's also flawed in some pretty serious ways. I don't know if it's fair to say that RJ is sexist because he included these flaws, but he is a product of an earlier generation.

 

What really astounds me is not so much the things written in the books, but certain reactions to things in the books that I really wouldn't have expected to see in this decade... or since the 50's really.

 

I wonder if it's because there's no concept or theory that causes more energetic response then one a person perceives will validate their prejudice.

Seems like those are still latently floatin' around for some.

 

What is funny is that some men and women react terribly strongly to the Aes Sedai being female and having most of the influence over non-Aes Sedai and all men. It's not like the WoT men are not allowed to be educated, own land, vote, or have the right to refuse sex if they wish. I would say that the gender equality is not completely unbalanced in Randland, but maybe more like it is in some forward thinking places in the real world today, but with the genders switched.

 

Why aren't the angry ones rallying for women's rights in the real world, if they find the gender equality in WoT so terribly bad. In my view it's because it's not the lack of equality that bothers them, but the fact that men are not treated with more superiority in the way that they are used to thinking of them. -off-topic-

 

So, getting back on the topic... I hope they have chocolate in the WT after TG? *knows own badness !* There should be a real thing here, but this post is so long already.

[Cerendrallion 32]

*off topic*

 

Kaitlin! Write a huge long passage about it and make me look bad...

 

Anyway. I don't think WoT is sexist per se, just find that particular aspect irritating. Though what really sends me over the edge is people at Wotmania (I detest that place, yet can't stop going...its like a drug. A scary, weirdo drug that can write essays on WoT) absolutely loving the Ashamen and loving all the humiliation that's been dealt out to the Aes Sedai over the last few books. *huffs*

 

*way, way off topic*

 

Though the White Tower is based upon the Vatican and I find it interesting that as the influence of the Aes Sedai wanes, as does the clergy in our world. But that's completely irrelevant to both threads I'm suppose to be talking about. *hums*

 

*back to just off topic*

 

RJ is quite good at levelling out the balance, if its supposed to be based on some period in the past. (Middle ages? Renassiance? Can't remember which) Women are educated, can own property and the like...but RJ does have a particular love of seeing women spanked, don't you think?

 

*cough*

 

I wonder if that's some secret fantasy that Harriet wont...

 

No, no, I shan't go there. Very bad.

 

*cough cough*

 

*back on proper topic*

 

I certainly hope they'll have chocolate. If not, several million people will go mad.

 

EDIT: Oh, wait, its all right, I've written a sufficently long reply.

[Kaitlin 22]

If Eggy decides to make Aes Sedai work for a living after the Last Battle, (isn't it pleasing this is so very much on topic, jannie?!!! *prance*) she should make them the world's foremost chocolatiers. Aes Sedai could also make collectible figurines out of the One Power that would never break no matter how hard they're knocked off end tables and book cases.

 

-off topic-

 

It wasn't my intention to make you look bad, Ms. Laura. *is just evil like that* Yes, I'm supposed to leave for work really shortly, but I just had to look in wotmania to see what kind of posts there are today. Yet another thread there is about how awful female channelers are! They are so Whitecloaky. If RJ wasn't sick somebody could post a little comment thingie on his blog asking what he thinks about that kind of thing.

 

We should go on a patch like the ones they have for cigs to wean us off of inferior wot boards.

 

That's funny about the Vatican isn't it... never thought of that before.

 

Oh, and who says Harriet hasn't asked RJ to indulge in a little... or maybe it was RJ asking her? Best not to think very much on it...

 

No, I really don't think RJ is sexist. I was thinking about the spanking, and some characterizations of the women when I said that about being from an earlier generation.

 

-fin- (This post was written like a big public pm! Blame it on work lateness! *guilty*)

[Cerendrallion 32]

Oh, they could make collectable figurines out the White Tower. I would buy one! I'd buy two! One for me to eat, one to stick in the freezer to bring out and display for special occasions...

 

*descends into off-topicdom*

 

Oh, that's a good idea about posting a comment on RJ's blog asking about stuff...damn the fates for making him ill...just when we wanted to know stuff...if I was more horribly selfish than I am, I might've just ignored his illness and asked anyway...but I won't...because...you know...he's sick and what...

 

I know! Wotmania is incrediably whitecloaky. *doesn't visit dragonmount because its so ridiculously hard to navigate and ugly*

 

Oooh. The WoT Patch: No More Addiction to Wotmania. Lovely. I'm sure we could make a fortune in some sort of scam involving that idea...

 

*beams* Yes. I was proud thinking of that parallel between the Vatican and the White Tower. (My uncle might've mentioned something about it, but shush...)

 

Oh. *shudders* Harriot and RJ's love life. Its just too strange to go into. When I think about that sort of stuff, I get mental pictures, and those mental pictures are just images I don't want to have...

 

*nods*

 

Some of his work smacks of old fashioned-ness.

 

What do you work as now?

 

~end~

 

(also guilty of writing a very long public PM, but I'm just in from an outdoors concert and very cold and wet...so don't blame me )

[Olivia 26]

The White Tower is very like the Catholic Church, I've often thought. WoT is supposed to be based on a time that is medieval or renaissance. During those times, there was one power that linked all nations, who's advocates had authority everywhere, and their advisors had the ears of every ruler in Europe.

History and our world would not have been the same if we did not have this power that was above others and was not confined to any particular land or country. We know they did many terrible things and most of the clergy was in it for the money and power, not for religious reasons. But, they did keep order between the nations, and were negotiators in wars.

The White Tower is very similar: when you become an Aes Sedai, you renounce all loyalty to your land of birth and its ruler. You can go anywhere and be accepted by all (RJ notes several times that even Pedron Niall would not refuse an audience with the Amyrlin Seat) and Aes Sedai without a doubt keep order, negotiate in wars (or stop the wars from happening), and protect from what everyone is afraid of - male channelers - the equivalent of the 'heathens' the Catholic Church convinced the common people were evil and out to destroy all that was good. (Random ranting here I just have to say: the Catholic church has taken a bunch of symbols that were holy to all the others religons regarded as 'pagan' and made them into symbols of evil and the devil, such as the trident of Poseidon being made Satan's pitchfork, and the Pentagram that was a symbol of protection being turned into a mark of evil. And witches wearing all black because widows wore all black; the church could claim these widows were witches and seize their land)

 

Back on topic, The Amyrlin is the equivalent of the Pope. All the Aes Sedai heed her, and she is close to being worshipped by some people. No ruler dared to challenge the Pope's decisions, because he would simply name them as heathens and excommunicate them, which forbade any other nations to ally with or even trade with them. Remember when the Borderland nations took their armies down to Braem Wood? Elaida was extremely pissed and freaking out, because they had made such a move without even alerting the White Tower, and they refused to listen to their advisors. And it is said several times that every ruler has an Aes Sedai advisor, even if they dont admit it to their people. Also, if you want to take an extreme example of Aes Sedai power over rulers take a look at Cadsuane. There are rumors of her kidnapping and holding hostage

a king and a queen. No way in hell anyone but an Aes Sedai could get away with this without being executed. Also, in more recent times, when she was in Far Madding all she did was have a 5 minute conversation with their leaders.....and suddenly the head woman of the council is DEPOSED and her crown taken off.

 

*takes deep breath* Okay, itch scratched.

[Cerendrallion 32]

*smiles*

 

I do believe Olivia that you've outdone us all

[Olivia 26]

*blushes madly* Thank you oh so much, Laura!

 

(Oh and I need to stop being lazy and do that Moiraine slash I promised a while back. =X)

[Kaitlin 22]

Yes, very well said.

[Cerendrallion 32]

*blushes madly* Thank you oh so much' date=' Laura!

 

(Oh and I need to stop being lazy and do that Moiraine slash I promised a while back. =X)[/quote']

 

 

You do! I command it! *commands* (A Moiraine slash with who, by the way?)